Brown Boy Goes to Law School

If you’ve ever considered transferring to a higher-ranked school after a year, remember, it’s pretty much a golden rule NOT to go to ANY school with the sole intention of transferring after a year. Why? Because chances are you WON’T be able to. Generally, you have to finish in the top 10% or 20% of your class. And sure, that may have been a breeze in undergrad, but remember, everyone in law school had a 3.0+ GPA in law school, and most of them had 3.5+ GPAs. So let me emphasize it once again: do not not not go to a lower-ranked school with the sole intention of transferring to a higher-ranked school after a year, without understanding the unlikelihood of it happening. When you pick a school that may not be in the Top 25, understand that your degree will not have national reach at the big law firms. And so, go to that school if you can see yourself potentially practicing there afterwards with the employment prospects that school will give you.

If you are thinking about transferring, ever wonder what it’ll take to get into the school of your dreams? Top 5%? Top 10%? Do they look more at your first year grades, or your undergrad record? Is your LSAT a factor?

Well, then you might find this website very helpful.

Here’s a post made by a lawyer who has been working in the profession for two years now, which addresses many of the questions people in the application process have….

Read up!

1) US NEWS & WORLD REPORT RANKINGS. First and foremost, it’s imperative that people begin to understand that these rankings do not come down to us on tablets from God. Moreover, the ranking process  is hardly a science with the certainty of, say, mathematics. Some students applying to law school actually believe that there is some real and finite difference between the 80th-ranked school and the 100th-ranked school or between the 80th-ranked school and the 60th-ranked school. It’s nonsense, and, in many cases, a school’s ranking has as much to do with politics as with anything else.

2) THE TOP LAW SCHOOLS. Yes, there is, justified or not, a perception that a certain group of law schools is in a class by itself (“generally” the top 15-20 schools in US NEWS). And yes, if your desire is to work for one of the biggest and most prestigious law firms in the country, you will “probably” need a degree from one of these schools. That said, there are several caveats. The first, of course, is that there are exceptions. There ARE lawyers at the world’s most prestigious firms who went to schools that US NEWS ranks in the 2nd and 3rd tiers.

3) BIG FIRMS AND MONEY. There is an absurd myth prevailing to the effect that the lawyers at the biggest and most prestigious firms make the most money. That is nonsense. They will make more money AT FIRST but, in many cases, will find themselves making less money than people who went to smaller firms in 5-10 years. In some cases, a LOT less. Why? Because, when you go to work for a law firm, you own NOTHING. You are a subcontractor for the firm and are at its mercy. The BIG FIRM bills clients $300-400 per hour for your work and gives you about $25-$40 an hour(based on a 70-hour week), keeping the other $250-$350 for itself. The ONLY way that you ever begin to exercise some degree of control is to become a partner—especially an equity partner. Very simply, you have a much greater chance of becoming an equity partner at a smaller firm, and if you do become an equity partner at a smaller firm, you OWN a piece of the firm. The business is yours. Don’t fall into looking at ridiculous salary averages that are associated with degrees from certain law schools. You would be SHOCKED to learn that many of the lawyers who operate out of rinky-dink little offices on the side of a highway can BUY AND SELL many of the lawyers who work at the most prestigious firms. If your goal is to sit at a desk and have SOMEONE ELSE hand you work, you will NEVER be rich. Law firms are a stepping stone for 99% of lawyers. Sure, there is that 1% that will make equity partner at Cravath and make $2.5M a year, but the rest won’t—even among the Harvard/Yale kids. For almost all lawyers, law firms are stepping stones meant to guide you closer to your OWN firm or your OWN business.         

4) IF MONEY IS YOUR GOAL, DON’T WORRY SO MUCH ABOUT TIERS. I am all in favor of going to the most prestigious law schools. If you are blessed to get into Harvard, Yale, Columbia, or one of the other top 15 or top 20 schools listed in US NEWS, go. But I find that students tend spend so much time obsessed with the criteria of academia (GPA, LSAT score, School reputation) that they often fail to realize that 95% of their potential clients don’t give a damn about ANY of those things. I have found that the one overwhelming criterion is PERSONAL APPEAL. Are you a likeable person? Do you project confidence? Do you have a natural charisma? Do you inspire confidence on the part of the potential client? Does the client feel safe with you? THOSE are the questions that really matter. You could be the finest lawyer in the world from a technical point of view, but if you don’t get clients, you’re not going to make money. A good friend of mine graduated from a 4th-tier school, went to a small firm, and made over $125,000 in commissions in his FIRST year because he was such a likeable guy. He would meet clients in diners, restaurants, apartments, construction sites, bars, delis, parks, etc. He bent over backward for clients. Now, three years out of a 4th-tier law school, he’s closing in on $200,000 a year and dusting 90% of the kids who went to Harvard.

The Admissions office will never give you a straight answer. Don’t you want to know exactly how many law firms recruit on that campus? Which of your schools have the most firms recruiting on campus?

Go here: http://www.nalpdirectory.com/

Click on advanced search, and select your college.

This is a very useful tool. Don’t go to a school until you’ve used it!

I spent the entire day trying to decide between two law school in Boston and Houston.

In Houston I’m looking at South Texas. It’s a smaller, private, less-reputable law school, with $23k yearly tuition.

In Boston, I’m looking at Suffolk. It’s a bigger, more expensive law school, with $39k yearly tuition.

It basically came down to these things:

• South Texas will limit me to Texas. It’ll be incredibly difficult to find employment outside Texas, let alone big markets like Boston/NYC/DC. Suffolk is in Boston, and is a little more reputable.
• South Texas is a HECK of a lot more cheaper. But you wouldn’t want to pass on Suffolk simply because of that, because with the higher tuition you also get access to the Boston job market, and the surrounding major cities.

In the end, I pulled out post-graduate statistics from both schools. I compared the bar passage rates, % employed after graduation, and average starting salary. They were virtually the same; $73k for Suffolk, and $78k for South Texas. Further, even a moron could tell you that $70k in Houston gets you a HECK of a lot more than $70k in Boston. Don’t take my word for it, just go do the CNN Money Salary Comparison Calculator. If you’re making $78k in Houston, you’d have to make the equivalent of $120k in Boston in order to maintain the same lifestyle. So if Suffolk will get you an average salary of $73k, that doesn’t say much in Boston. In other words, South Texas is the bigger bang for the buck. On top of that, the cheaper tuition makes the decision that much easier.

If I was looking at Harvard or Yale, then sure, it would probably be worth taking the bullet. But paying Harvard-level tuition for Suffolk, a school that’ll get you about the same as South Texas as far as post-grad opportunities are concerned, just isn’t worth it.

Also, be realistic about your law school loans. You may have just graduated from undergrad, and your monthly payment is $200 or so. Well, to payback law school loans, you could be paying WELL above $1,000 a month. Will you be able to afford it? Check out this very helpful resource: FinAid’s Loan Calculator. But there’s more. These guys will ALSO tell you how much money you will need to be making in order to afford paying back that loan. For example, $40k tuition at a Boston school for 3 years is a $120k loan. A 20-year student loan at a 6.8% rate means your monthly payment will be $1,068.68. FinAid adds….

“It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $128,241.60 to be able to afford to repay this loan.”

Plug your numbers into this calculator when trying to make the decision of whether you should go to that top-notch private law school with a $40k tuition rate. Look up how much an average grad from that particular schools makes on average after graduation. Is it worth it? Depending on the school, it might very well be. That’s your decision.

Hooray for benefit-cost analysis.

I got an e-mail today from a law professor at Suffolk Law School up in Boston. I thought I’d just share the entire e-mail…

Dear Junaid:

Every year, new students contact the law school and ask: “Is there anything I can do to get ready for law school?” As for the substantive courses you will be taking during your first year – Criminal Law, Contracts, Constitutional Law, Torts, Property, Civil Procedure, and Legal Practice Skills – do not worry. We will teach you everything you need to know once you arrive at Suffolk.

If you truly want to work on something prior to your arrival, there are several books out there that address what it takes to excel in law school. These books can answer many of your questions before you ever attend orientation, and can be an important source of information throughout the school year. In addition, I have listed a book – The Buffalo Creek Disaster – that illustrates how good lawyers can make a positive difference in the lives of the people they represent.

Succeeding in Law School, Professor Herbert N. Ramy (Published by Carolina Academic Press), ISBN-13: 978-1594601897. The unifying concept behind this recently completed text is that students must become active participants in their own education. Classroom lectures and textbooks are merely the jumping off point for each student’s exploration of every topic. Approaching law school in this fashion is the key to oft stated goal of “thinking like a lawyer.”

Plain English for Lawyers, 4th Edition, Richard C. Wydick, ISBN#: 0-89089-994-0 – Despite what many of you may have heard or read, lawyers write best when they keep it simple, concise, and to the point. Through the use of examples and exercises, this outstanding book points out all the writing pitfalls into which new law students fall.

1000 Days to the Bar, Dennis J. Tonsing, ISBN# 0-8377-3726-5 Written by the former Dean of Students at Roger Williams University School of Law, this book is “designed to empower first-year law students by presenting the components for academic success is a step-by-step format.”

The Buffalo Creek Disaster, Gerald M. Stern, ISBN#: 0394723430.

All of these books are in paperback, and you should be able to find them at the Suffolk Law School bookstore or through Amazon.com. Keep in mind that these books are “suggested” reading, and that we will not be testing whether you read them when you arrive in the fall! We hope that this list helps, and we look forward to seeing you in August. In the meantime, you may contact me at hramy@suffolk.edu if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

Professor Herbert N. Ramy, Director

So at one of the schools I was very interested in, I was offered to either start as a part-time student in the fall, or wait until the spring and start full-time.

I’ve been researching the whole part-time thing, and here are the facts I’ve collected, and the conclusions I’ve come to:

• The professors will be the same.
• Your degree will be the exact same.
• I will have more time to study and my first year will be a notch less intense, which could be good given my personality. Also, more time to adjust to the big new city.
• First-year grades are the most important. Period. And so taking those first-year courses over a longer period of time will lower the stress and improve the potential for doing better in those courses. The Assistant Dean of Admissions, who graduated from that law school, said that he sometimes wishes that he was part-time, for this very reason.
• I will have more time to network with lawyers and judges in the area. This is VERY important, especially if I’m wanting to work in that city. I could be improving my job prospects going part-time.
• I will be able to work and gain more work experience that I wouldn’t have gained as a full-time student, hopefully a small job with a law firm or judge?
• I will be eligible to transfer to the full-time program after a semester, and no longer than after earning 30 credit hours (which means being there for two fall semesters). So this part-time thing could be for only one semester, and no more than 1.5 years.

These are the questions that are still on my mind:

• Will I still have the same access to moot court, law review and student organizations? I spoke with the Assistant Dean of Admissions, and asked him what effect going part-time would have on student organizations, moot court and so on. He said: none at all. The opportunities are the same. Any many of the student organizations require you to have X amount of coursework completed before you do it (like moot court/trial advocacy), so you would have progressed into full-time by then anyways.
• How does this effect job prospects? This question is open to debate. Some say it helps your job prospects, some say it hurts. Hmmm…

Go to this blog if you’re looking for more advice. Tons of links, lots of info.

I was poking around on LSD and found couple of good threads. Some first-year law students–they’re called 1L’s–were giving their thoughts on their first year of law school. Here’s some stuff I found interesting…

“Note Taking: I found it really beneficial to take notes BEFORE class based on the reading, and then just supplement these notes with whatever the professor said in class. This facilitates active reading, and thinking about the material before you get into class (and is similar to what the briefing process does for you too….)

Professor Interaction: I went and talked with all of my professors outside of class, and found it to be really helpful. First, they get to know you a little outside of class, which can only help when it becomes necessary to ask faculty for recommendations. Second, I found that sometimes they were able to clear up an issue with five minutes of office time that had left me confused after an hour of class time. Don’t know why, but that happened more than once.

Socializing/Networking: I think socializing in law school is really important. You need friends, becuase it’s a long, difficult road you’re starting down, and you don’t want to travel alone. Also, I know others have said this, but it bears repeating–You’re joining the legal community as soon as you step foot on campus. 3 years isn’t really that long (although it’ll feel neverending come next April), and you’ll soon be lawyers, and your clasmates will be your collegues. The reputation you develop in law school will without a doubt follow you into the professional legal world. So be friendly, be nice, if for no other reason that you want to be someone your classmates will think well of (and send business to) when you are practicing. I think it’s important to realize, that for better or worse, you’re about to join a very very VERY social profession. Networking will become a part of your life, even if you can’t stand it, or it doesn’t come naturally to you. So start early. Go to what ever social events you school has planned for your orientation, and really try to talk to people (this can be hard if you’re naturally shy…I know because I am, and it takes a lot of effort for me to just walk up to strangers and start a conversation, but I’m getting better at it, or at least more comfortable doing it…)”

- AtlAggie

“You absolutely need some legal work experience over the summer.  Ideally, I’d suggest doing both; take 1 or maybe 2 classes, and work part-time some where.”

- jacy85

“But the thing to remember is that everyone has their own style.  I know people who sit in the library 10 hours a day, going crazy over small, minute details in the reading.  Some of those people did very well on exams, too.  Bottom line is find a system that works for you and go with it.”

- Actual1L

The more I read, the more I figure out that getting the best grades you possibly can during your first year in order to get a solid summer internship is really what it all comes down to. Period.

The best thing you can do to answer the question of whether you want to become a lawyer is this: talk to a lawyer. Be a smart person, and listen to people older than you. It’ll get you far in life.

Click here and read through some of the stuff these lawyers have to say, courtesy of the Wisconsin Bar.